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	<title>Comments on: It&#8217;s the End of the World As We Know It (NoSQL Edition)</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.pythian.com/news/14199/its-the-end-of-the-world-as-we-know-it-nosql-edition/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.pythian.com/news/14199/its-the-end-of-the-world-as-we-know-it-nosql-edition/</link>
	<description>News and views from Pythian DBAs</description>
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		<title>By: NoSQL Daily &#8211; Tue Oct 5 &#8250; PHP App Engine</title>
		<link>http://www.pythian.com/news/14199/its-the-end-of-the-world-as-we-know-it-nosql-edition/#comment-464295</link>
		<dc:creator>NoSQL Daily &#8211; Tue Oct 5 &#8250; PHP App Engine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Oct 2010 08:16:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pythian.com/news/?p=14199#comment-464295</guid>
		<description>[...] It&#8217;s the End of the World As We Know It (NoSQL Edition) &#124; The Pythian Blog [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] It&#8217;s the End of the World As We Know It (NoSQL Edition) | The Pythian Blog [...]</p>
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		<title>By: It’s the End of the World As We Know It (NoSQL Edition) (via I&#8217;m just a simple DBA on a complex production system) &#171; So Many Oracle Manuals, So Little Time</title>
		<link>http://www.pythian.com/news/14199/its-the-end-of-the-world-as-we-know-it-nosql-edition/#comment-461187</link>
		<dc:creator>It’s the End of the World As We Know It (NoSQL Edition) (via I&#8217;m just a simple DBA on a complex production system) &#171; So Many Oracle Manuals, So Little Time</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Sep 2010 03:19:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pythian.com/news/?p=14199#comment-461187</guid>
		<description>[...] ideas) uses only one table and two queries. This post originally appeared over at Pythian. There are also some very smart comments over there that you shouldn&#8217;t miss, go take a look! [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] ideas) uses only one table and two queries. This post originally appeared over at Pythian. There are also some very smart comments over there that you shouldn&#8217;t miss, go take a look! [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Iggy Fernandez</title>
		<link>http://www.pythian.com/news/14199/its-the-end-of-the-world-as-we-know-it-nosql-edition/#comment-461159</link>
		<dc:creator>Iggy Fernandez</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Sep 2010 00:35:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pythian.com/news/?p=14199#comment-461159</guid>
		<description>re: &quot;If Stonebraker is right and most datasets can be partitioned in a way that allows SQL and DML to almost always run on a single node, this can be used to optimize OLTP systems on RAC.&quot;

Stonebraker was unable to partition the nine-table TPC-C schema in such a way that each TPC-C transaction can be performed on a single node. The &quot;Voter&quot; teaching example used by VoltDB has only one table and two queries. :-) See http://www.slideshare.net/VoltDB/building-voltdb-applications</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>re: &#8220;If Stonebraker is right and most datasets can be partitioned in a way that allows SQL and DML to almost always run on a single node, this can be used to optimize OLTP systems on RAC.&#8221;</p>
<p>Stonebraker was unable to partition the nine-table TPC-C schema in such a way that each TPC-C transaction can be performed on a single node. The &#8220;Voter&#8221; teaching example used by VoltDB has only one table and two queries. :-) See <a href="http://www.slideshare.net/VoltDB/building-voltdb-applications" rel="nofollow">http://www.slideshare.net/VoltDB/building-voltdb-applications</a></p>
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		<title>By: Gwen Shapira</title>
		<link>http://www.pythian.com/news/14199/its-the-end-of-the-world-as-we-know-it-nosql-edition/#comment-451417</link>
		<dc:creator>Gwen Shapira</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Aug 2010 23:14:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pythian.com/news/?p=14199#comment-451417</guid>
		<description>Tom,

A slightly more balanced way to look at this:
Cassandra is new software backed by relatively new algorithms.
Of course its not perfect.
Of course its not a silver bullet.

Since it requires a new way for data modeling, a lot of implementations will suck until we figure out how to do it right.

It is a real attempt to solve a real problem web sites ran into. It is interesting and worth following. If you have a problem that matches this solution - you can consider trying Cassandra, knowing that it has bugs and will not solve all your problems easily.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tom,</p>
<p>A slightly more balanced way to look at this:<br />
Cassandra is new software backed by relatively new algorithms.<br />
Of course its not perfect.<br />
Of course its not a silver bullet.</p>
<p>Since it requires a new way for data modeling, a lot of implementations will suck until we figure out how to do it right.</p>
<p>It is a real attempt to solve a real problem web sites ran into. It is interesting and worth following. If you have a problem that matches this solution &#8211; you can consider trying Cassandra, knowing that it has bugs and will not solve all your problems easily.</p>
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		<title>By: Tom</title>
		<link>http://www.pythian.com/news/14199/its-the-end-of-the-world-as-we-know-it-nosql-edition/#comment-451161</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Aug 2010 11:53:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pythian.com/news/?p=14199#comment-451161</guid>
		<description>Cassandra and other NOSQL solutions are all the rage. They are non blocking and so fast.

First, people use it because it is free. Second, it is not perfect because Reddit is down much more and seems slow at times and every other time I go to twitter I get the &quot;Ooops something is wrong.&quot;

Something is wrong, they all use Cassandra. I can&#039;t fault the technology, but maybe the people implementing it? Ok, maybe it is the technology too. Either way, it is not as &quot;simple&quot; as they make it out to be and it is not a silver bullet.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cassandra and other NOSQL solutions are all the rage. They are non blocking and so fast.</p>
<p>First, people use it because it is free. Second, it is not perfect because Reddit is down much more and seems slow at times and every other time I go to twitter I get the &#8220;Ooops something is wrong.&#8221;</p>
<p>Something is wrong, they all use Cassandra. I can&#8217;t fault the technology, but maybe the people implementing it? Ok, maybe it is the technology too. Either way, it is not as &#8220;simple&#8221; as they make it out to be and it is not a silver bullet.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Fontana</title>
		<link>http://www.pythian.com/news/14199/its-the-end-of-the-world-as-we-know-it-nosql-edition/#comment-449327</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Fontana</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Aug 2010 21:41:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pythian.com/news/?p=14199#comment-449327</guid>
		<description>There are some excellent conceptual ideas in the Stonebraker paper, but:

It is irresponsible to describe some of the mechanisms he proposed to eliminate without having sufficient detail about their replacements.  I will gladly give up undo and redo for a fully working and provable redundant recovery mechanism that&#039;s been thoroughly tested, but not one that doesn&#039;t even quite yet exist!  

Come to think of it, IT software salesman are notorious for doing exactly the same thing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There are some excellent conceptual ideas in the Stonebraker paper, but:</p>
<p>It is irresponsible to describe some of the mechanisms he proposed to eliminate without having sufficient detail about their replacements.  I will gladly give up undo and redo for a fully working and provable redundant recovery mechanism that&#8217;s been thoroughly tested, but not one that doesn&#8217;t even quite yet exist!  </p>
<p>Come to think of it, IT software salesman are notorious for doing exactly the same thing.</p>
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		<title>By: Gwen Shapira</title>
		<link>http://www.pythian.com/news/14199/its-the-end-of-the-world-as-we-know-it-nosql-edition/#comment-447969</link>
		<dc:creator>Gwen Shapira</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Jul 2010 01:47:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pythian.com/news/?p=14199#comment-447969</guid>
		<description>Thanks for stopping by to comment, Ryan!

I&#039;m very interested in real-world stories of how these ideas worked for VoltDB customers. Especially if VoltDB really doesn&#039;t allow for ad-hoc queries.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for stopping by to comment, Ryan!</p>
<p>I&#8217;m very interested in real-world stories of how these ideas worked for VoltDB customers. Especially if VoltDB really doesn&#8217;t allow for ad-hoc queries.</p>
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		<title>By: Ryan Betts</title>
		<link>http://www.pythian.com/news/14199/its-the-end-of-the-world-as-we-know-it-nosql-edition/#comment-447913</link>
		<dc:creator>Ryan Betts</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Jul 2010 21:19:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pythian.com/news/?p=14199#comment-447913</guid>
		<description>VoltDB is the commercialization of some of these ideas. There are some important differences from the paper - but the core ideas are present: non-blocking, stored procedure interface to a horizontally partitioned SQL row store optimized for throughput.

Your vitriol against Stonebraker aside, the issue of DBA cost versus developer cost is an interesting one. I&#039;ve talked to organizations that put a lot of effort into minimizing DBA cost per database instance and other groups that lament development costs. Minimizing both is the logical desire (unless you&#039;re a DBA or an application developer).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>VoltDB is the commercialization of some of these ideas. There are some important differences from the paper &#8211; but the core ideas are present: non-blocking, stored procedure interface to a horizontally partitioned SQL row store optimized for throughput.</p>
<p>Your vitriol against Stonebraker aside, the issue of DBA cost versus developer cost is an interesting one. I&#8217;ve talked to organizations that put a lot of effort into minimizing DBA cost per database instance and other groups that lament development costs. Minimizing both is the logical desire (unless you&#8217;re a DBA or an application developer).</p>
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		<title>By: M-A-O-L &#187; The End of an Architectural Era</title>
		<link>http://www.pythian.com/news/14199/its-the-end-of-the-world-as-we-know-it-nosql-edition/#comment-447463</link>
		<dc:creator>M-A-O-L &#187; The End of an Architectural Era</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Jul 2010 06:12:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pythian.com/news/?p=14199#comment-447463</guid>
		<description>[...] Architectural Era about HStore, his modern implementation of an OLTP database system. Her article It’s the End of the World As We Know It (NoSQL Edition) is a good write-up and analysis for those (such as me) who don&#8217;t have time to read and digest [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Architectural Era about HStore, his modern implementation of an OLTP database system. Her article It’s the End of the World As We Know It (NoSQL Edition) is a good write-up and analysis for those (such as me) who don&#8217;t have time to read and digest [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Gwen Shapira</title>
		<link>http://www.pythian.com/news/14199/its-the-end-of-the-world-as-we-know-it-nosql-edition/#comment-441107</link>
		<dc:creator>Gwen Shapira</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Jul 2010 17:40:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pythian.com/news/?p=14199#comment-441107</guid>
		<description>@Noons

Remember that for MIT professors, developers are called &quot;grad students&quot; and are very cheap indeed :)

Why listen? Because amidst the bullshit, there are ideas that can work.

CTO of Amazon read the paper, decided that much of it can&#039;t work, but in-memory distributed OLTP can work.
Amazon built their own version which is way more practical, but also involves &quot;eventual consistency&quot;.

3 Years later and everyone talks about those NoSQL databases. 

Maybe its just a fad, but you can&#039;t ignore the fact that either Stonebraker predicted the future, or he invented it. Either way, its worth listening.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Noons</p>
<p>Remember that for MIT professors, developers are called &#8220;grad students&#8221; and are very cheap indeed :)</p>
<p>Why listen? Because amidst the bullshit, there are ideas that can work.</p>
<p>CTO of Amazon read the paper, decided that much of it can&#8217;t work, but in-memory distributed OLTP can work.<br />
Amazon built their own version which is way more practical, but also involves &#8220;eventual consistency&#8221;.</p>
<p>3 Years later and everyone talks about those NoSQL databases. </p>
<p>Maybe its just a fad, but you can&#8217;t ignore the fact that either Stonebraker predicted the future, or he invented it. Either way, its worth listening.</p>
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